The Rocky Road to Publishing

[Ruby]

It's always great to hear about an author on the forums who's published a story, poem or book.

I'd like to hear about the trials along the way.

What worked?
What didn't?
What type of advice can you provide to others?
What are/were your criterias for success?
When did you or will you feel like you've reached them?

So many questions, I'm sure many of you can create a few of your own.

Let's make this thread a place where we can ask each other questions about the publishing market and share the research and experiences we've learned.

Authors wanting to be published: ask away.

Published authors: please share.

[alura]

I published a poem on an online magazine. I just emailed it in, they liked it and they published it. Weird. Must've been dumb luck at the time. I've found that new writers seem to have a lot more success at online and small press magazines, though, initially, because most of them don't require that you have an agent and also, the majority of them ARE mostly all soliciated manuscripts; some of them are 90% percent (or better) mostly written BY the readers. I've had some published in those as well. My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter so much if you make a lot of money at first; what really matters is getting those Kudos under your belt so that when you go for the big money...big mag....you can pull out your 'refs'.
Also, I highly recommend to EVERY writer to buy (yearly) the new writers digest book that contains all the up to date small press, big press, magazines, periodicals, etc etc with all the new and updated editors, etc. This book is invaluable because not only does it tell you what every single solitary place is LOOKING for, but also their guidelines, their do's and don'ts, how much they pay per word...per article (sometimes this can vary either they pay by word or by article....sometimes they only pay in magazines), etc. Plus it has lots of valuable tips; how to write excellent query letters, etc etc. Another important reason to invest in this book is because quite often the editors of different departments, addresses, emails, etc, may change from year to year. This book is priceless; trust me on this! The new updated ones usually come out in January.
IN ADDITION, I think it's so important to have a group where you can get your work edited, read other people's work, etc etc.....if you haven't found that sort of place anywhere yet, permit me to 'plug' here by saying that 'writing.com' is the number one creative writing site in america...and it's free! Even Ruby knows about it.......it's where she and I MET for the first time.

It's always great to hear about an author on the forums who's published a story, poem or book.

I'd like to hear about the trials along the way.

What worked?
What didn't?
What type of advice can you provide to others?
What are/were your criterias for success?
When did you or will you feel like you've reached them?

So many questions, I'm sure many of you can create a few of your own.

Let's make this thread a place where we can ask each other questions about the publishing market and share the research and experiences we've learned.

Authors wanting to be published: ask away.

Published authors: please share.

[Ruby]

... My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter so much if you make a lot of money at first; what really matters is getting those Kudos under your belt so that when you go for the big money...big mag....you can pull out your 'refs'.
...Also, I highly recommend to EVERY writer to buy (yearly) the new writers digest book that contains all the up to date small press, big press, magazines, periodicals, etc etc with all the new and updated editors, etc.
...IN ADDITION, I think it's so important to have a group where you can get your work edited, read other people's work, etc etc.....if you haven't found that sort of place anywhere yet, permit me to 'plug' here by saying that 'writing.com' is the number one creative writing site in america...and it's free!

Excellent advice, Alura.

If you don't have the money for the yearly Writer's Handbook, that's okay, too. Pick up one at a used book store for a couple of bucks and start planning your strategy. When you've got something to publish, then hit your local library for a new copy.

Joining a writing circle, critique club is a fantastic way to get some good hard feedback.

[Ruby]

Getting your BDSM books or stories published

Here are some sites that sell BDSM e-books that support self published authors.

Yes, that's right - you, the author - can contact them directly, negotiate a royalty payment, retain your rights and sell your books / short stories:

www.a1adultebooks.com

www.bdsmbooks.com

www.bondagebookshelf.com

www.maidenheadbooks.com

www.fictionwise.com
Note: they only want previously published work at this site.

Here are some sites that sell only work they have published:

http://www.adultbookshops.com/

http://www.chimerabooks.co.uk/

http://www.circlet.com/home.html

http://www.ellorascave.com/index.asp

http://www.olympia-press.co.uk/

http://www.pinkflamingo.com/

http://www.renebooks.com/

http://www.wickedvelvet.com/

Here are some links for writers of erotica:

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/AR/AR-Main.htm

The link below has submission guidelines for a large number of publishers. It also tells you how much you can make with particular magazines, e-zines and anthologies.

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/G-Main.htm

Like your erotica on the dark side? Great tips and tricks for writers here:

http://www.darkerotica.net/

Sites to add?
Comments?
Questions?
What type of experiences do you have to share?
What road has been less rocky or the most?

Inquiring minds want to know. Who's next?

[sweetlitlwon]

Getting your BDSM books or stories published

Here are some sites that sell BDSM e-books that support self published authors.

Yes, that's right - you, the author - can contact them directly, negotiate a royalty payment, retain your rights and sell your books / short stories:

www.a1adultebooks.com

www.bdsmbooks.com

www.bondagebookshelf.com

www.maidenheadbooks.com

www.fictionwise.com
Note: they only want previously published work at this site.

Here are some sites that sell only work they have published:

http://www.adultbookshops.com/

http://www.chimerabooks.co.uk/

http://www.circlet.com/home.html

http://www.ellorascave.com/index.asp

http://www.olympia-press.co.uk/

http://www.pinkflamingo.com/

http://www.renebooks.com/

http://www.wickedvelvet.com/

Here are some links for writers of erotica:

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/AR/AR-Main.htm

The link below has submission guidelines for a large number of publishers. It also tells you how much you can make with particular magazines, e-zines and anthologies.

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/G-Main.htm

Like your erotica on the dark side? Great tips and tricks for writers here:

http://www.darkerotica.net/

Sites to add?
Comments?
Questions?
What type of experiences do you have to share?
What road has been less rocky or the most?

Inquiring minds want to know. Who's next?

Thanks for the links Ruby I have had a few BDSM/erotic poems (also some regular ones) published and am currently working on a full length book aimed towards yoyr every day woman who just happens to be a sub. Your links will provide me with some great outlets I am sure!!!I am going to check out your book now!!!Thanks for the info.

[Powerone]

My first novel was published in the middle of February. Originally I had contracted with Ghede Publishing (an offshoot of Ellorascave.com, the romantic novel publisher) over a year ago. They had problems and after almost a year (I signed contract in July) they decided not to publish erotica because of the difficulties of getting payment processors to take payment for erotica.

I had contacted Renaissnace books on my second novel and signed a contract with them for that (Hollister School for Girls) and will be out soon. When Ghede called it quits, I asked Renaissance to publish Teaching The Au Pair To Submit first, which they did. In fact they published it within a week, since it was already edited, etc. The only thing needed was a cover.

It came out February 18 and has been highly successful. It is on renaissance Books website (renebooks.com) in addition it is on fictionwise.com (It is #2 on erotica and #6 of all e-books), mobipocket.com (#1), ebooksad.com (#5) and amazon.com and borders.com (the best I have got on Amazon is #25,000, but you have to remember, I have one version that is microsoft reader that was #864,000, though it is #164,000 today). This is after two months. It has proved to be quite lucrative.


I was in the top of the list on Renaissance for March and doing quite well for April. I am working on a third novel, Island Lust (about 3/4 finished) and am starting to write a romantic novel (For the Pleasure of Her Husband).

In addition, if you haven't tried it yet, don't forget Jinn's bdsmillustrated.com. It pays writers based on how good their stories do. I have a highly successful series (Mexican Rebels Sex Slaves, 6 chapters) with illustrations by the famous illustrator, Aires. My series has been running since December, with chapter 7 submitted for illustrations today.

[Mad Lews]

Getting your BDSM books or stories published

Sites to add?
Comments?
Questions?
What type of experiences do you have to share?
What road has been less rocky or the most?

Inquiring minds want to know. Who's next?

Just a question that might be plaguing some of us " Not ready for prime time writers", When we post stories on sites such as this one, Literotica, and similar places are we giving up our " intellectual property" and how would it effect latter use of revised, expanded, and edited copies of such stories. Any insight from the experienced writers would be appreciated

Mad Lews

[Ruby]

Just a question that might be plaguing some of us " Not ready for prime time writers", When we post stories on sites such as this one, Literotica, and similar places are we giving up our " intellectual property" and how would it effect latter use of revised, expanded, and edited copies of such stories. Any insight from the experienced writers would be appreciated

Mad Lews

Mad Lews, excellent questions.

Are you giving up your intellectual property by posting it to sites for "free"?
No. However, please, please, please, put copyright information on your work.

Copyright (c) 2005 Your Name or the Name of your Pub House. All rights reserved.

For example:
Copyright (c) 2005 Spice and Sugar Publications. All rights reserved.
or
Copyright (c) 2005 Ruby Bloodstone. All rights reserved.

This is your claim of ownership and creates a legal trail that can be followed.

How does it effect latter use of revised, expanded, and edited copies of such stories when they are placed on site like Literotica or the BDSM Library?

It affects the potential sales price and ability to publish.

Many publishers will not publish work that has been given away for free.
Many on-line book stores will not sell books that were previously given away for free.

But it's not the same book? Honest!

Okay - great. Then make sure all previous copies have been removed from free sites. Ensure that the work is substantially better, revised, enhanced, etc. from what you placed out there before.

Jaeangel's work Hell to Heaven is a great example of this.
She took down the free story, did a complete editing refresh and
added new chapters. Afterwards, she sent it out for another edit from her publisher. Then the publisher packaged it for sale.
(I know, because we share the same publisher.)

A good rule of thumb is to not post more than 3 chapters of any full length novel that you plan to publish. Many book sellers will decline to sell a book if they find the book on the web for free and more than 3 chapters available. In fact, many prefer to limit you to two chapters.

Who will read and critique my book/story while it's in progress?

Hopefully a group of people that you can trust. Both Alura and I use www.writing.com, but we use it in different ways. She can comment how she gets story feedback.

I post mostly finished work. She posts work in progress. Since you have control of your account, you can lock it so only select people can read what you've posted and you can remove your material at any time.

Other writers, publishers, editors out there - Comments? Suggestions? We'd like to hear from you. Who's next?

[acissej]

I don't work on much erotica, but if anyone wants an editor's perspective on how to prepare a query or on any general publishing questions, feel free to PM me. I'm afraid I won't be very helpful with issues of self-publishing and e-books, but I'd be able to help with questions regarding traditional publishing houses and literary agents.

And here's some more info on other publishers who do erotica:

As of two weeks ago, Ellora's Cave was accepting all erotica romance genres but F/m. The most popular for them are vampire/shapeshifter, futuristic and bondage/M/f. They're also interested in acquiring gay/lesbian romances. Must be a minimum of 20,000 words and they prefer submissions be over 40,000 words. EC only publishes erotic romance, not erotica. But they are starting up some kind of new erotica program that will run under a different name and are actively searching for submissions.

They're keeping pretty quiet about it, but MIRA Books (an imprint of Harlequin) is actively acquiring classy erotica for a new program. You must have an agent to submit. There's no info up on their websites (www.eharlequin.com and/or www.mirabooks.com), but PM me and I can give you the name of the editor heading up the program.

ImaJinn is starting a new paranormal erotica line. From what I understand, they'll accept queries from unagented, unpublished authors, but won't accept unsolicited partials or completes. More info at www.imajinnbooks.com.

Pocket Books is doing erotica, but only accepts agented submissions. If you want the names of the editors interested in erotica, PM me.

Red Sage Publishing is looking for "sensuous, bold, spicy, untamed, hot, and somtimes politically incorrect stories." Their ideal submissions are between 35-40,000 words long, but will take submissions longer and shorter. And they welcome unagented authors. www.redsagepub.com

[Ruby]

acissej,

Thanks! Great stuff...just what I was looking for when I started this thread.
Am looking forward to checking out your links.

[Powerone]

Ellora's Cave did have plans for publishing erotica under Ghede Publishing. But after a year they changed their mind due to the problems with credit card companies. My first novel Teaching the Au Pair To Submit was originally under contract with Ghede until their demise in February when they finally threw in the sponge. They left a lot of writers still scrambling for a new publisher

But their romantic publishing is one of the largest.

For those that don't know the difference between romance and erotica, romance can only have one partner and they must "live happily ever after".

As of two weeks ago, Ellora's Cave was accepting all erotica romance genres but F/m. The most popular for them are vampire/shapeshifter, futuristic and bondage/M/f. They're also interested in acquiring gay/lesbian romances. Must be a minimum of 20,000 words and they prefer submissions be over 40,000 words. EC only publishes erotic romance, not erotica. But they are starting up some kind of new erotica program that will run under a different name and are actively searching for submissions.


[/url]

[diannavesta.com]

This is an excellent thread Ruby. Lots of good information.

I wrote an ongoing column for years in Nugget Magazine. Through the years I pretty much focused on articles to promote my various adult venues. Instead of getting paid most publishers gave me ad space or the ability to plug my products & services.

I’ve been asked to write books and I will, however I will most likely self publish and promote. I am already established and have a pretty good size mailing list. The work I do is very niche so it in itself has its own market. If at all possible I highly recommend focusing on a niche that you’re into and building a following because it guarantees books sales.

The book I am working on now I will actually print because of the type of book and it’s a tad cultish. It all plays in with the concept.

If you’d like to print your books check out www.lulu.com They even have a lady who you can hire to do proof reading. It’s a great service.

DV

[General_Dom]

I've had good luck with a1adultebooks. Stuart is very easy to deal with and you get to keep 60% of your sales.... beats the heck out of most traditional publishing deals, though you do have to market your work very aggressively to get anywhere without MASSIVE volume......

[Rabbit1]

Excellent Thread ---and great advice---I started out writing on a free forum much like this one that turned into a pay forum---it was nice to start getting paid for the stories I had submitted ---I got paid by the download.

I now have 5 novels published one from a first chapter of a story I submitted here in a story contest.

This is one reason I volunteer here --is to help new authors get a start---refine their writing skills---and hopefully become better at what they like to do.

[Ruby]

Rabbit1, please don't be a tease.

Who is your publisher? How's it working out?
Would you recommend them to others?

Ever curious,

Ruby

[General_Dom]

One thing I would highly recommend to new authors, especially those seeking a publisher, is construction of a "promotional sheet."

This is a small document (generally under 10 pages) that summarizes --- and SELLS --- your novel. It contains detailed character sketches (background, motivations) and a detailed plot synopsis --- something many publishers will require since it demonstrates that your work has something of a "story arc" and isn't just a series of randomly strung together sex/torture scenes. The synopsis also gives the publisher a better idea of the "buttons" you wish to push with your target audience. Helpful, since many publishers market exclusively to niche audiences.

Writing a promo sheet can also be a very effective "workbook" for you, the writer, as well. It forces you to really explore your character's inner workings and their relationships to each other. I will often stop and write a promo sheet mid-novel just to get the creative juices flowing. It's a great method for routing writer's block.

If you are interested in seeing an example of a promo sheet, I would be glad to share the one I constructed for "Loser's Bluff," a novel that I had published by A1AdultEBooks after the first draft was available on BDSM Lib for a short time last spring. Just click on my name to send me email.

Thanks, and best wishes to all the fine writers out in BDSM land....

GD

[Slut4U]

This has been very helpful for me. Thank you guys so much
Slut4U

[Slut4U]

Has anyone heard of Blue Moon Books INC. a friend told me that they do alot of erotica publishing. Is that true? I cant find a website.
Slut4U

[Ruby]

Blue Moon was purchased by Avalon Publishing Group and while the books are part of their catalog, I couldn't find any calls for submission or writer's guidelines for them.

For the most recent list of calls for submissions & publishing opportunities in the erotica market, visit the
Erotica Readers & Writers Association

http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/G-Main.htm

If you join their e-newsletter, you'll get up to date submissions in your in-box.

[Slut4U]

Ruby,
Thank you very much for your help. I didnt know that about Blue Moon. You have been so helpful. I am very greatful that you have started this tread
Slut4U

[her_Joe]

I've never published erotic stories/poems except for online sites like the Library, but "back in the day" did have a busy (if not exactly "thriving") career in writing fiction for slick magazines and poetry for "little magazines," even put out a pair of chap books.

It looked like I was about to experience some "real" success when I got a tentative offer for a volume of poetry/fiction from a 'mainline' (i.e., major) publisher. I chose not to pursue the contract, and not to try further to publish that book (or any other), because of the bone-crushing commitment that the contract would have demanded for political support of the book at a time when I had a young family.

I was asked to "hit the road" to do readings, interviews, and so on for a period of three months. I made it for nearly a month before I bailed out.

I think the experience might be informative for some beginners, so I offer it up here ...

Understandably, while publishers may like what they read, they want to be fairly sure there will be a large enough audience for what they publish to justify the costs of editing, printing, distribution, and so on. And it's up to the author to establish that fact beyond their doubt.

So, in my case, the publisher was generous in arranging a road trip of colleges, coffee houses, and so on. They had arranged 3-5 appearances each week. It was up to me to make sure that I filled in, as I could, with 3-5 more, so as to generate some newspaper coverage, reviews, interviews, and so on.

I enjoyed the travel and the chance to talk about the things that interested me (who the heck wouldn't?), even though it kept me from my family, but the part that soured it was the heavy dose of cynicism in "professional" readers -- i.e., critics and student critics, academic audiences and poetry house audiences and people who show up with the primary intention of poking holes in whatever they hear.

Now, so I don't sound too whiney, I'll admit to enjoying it ... for a day or two. I kept good spirits and dealt with the condescension and "rejection" for a couple of weeks (after all, I once papered a room with rejection slips). But after three weeks I was about 'up to here' with it and my grin was more of a grimmace ... even then, I'd have been good to go had it not been that the contract wanted me to do this for six months straight when the book was published, provide another book inside of a year, and a third three years later ... without guarantee of publication.

The point I want to make is that many good writers fall short of success not because of their writing but because they are unwilling or unable to handle the political requirements of self-promotion. I know I wasn't able to handle it ... now that I'm older, I may give it another shot, but this time I'll be aware that it's up to me to sell the dang thing, whether I use a vanity publisher or a mainstream commercial press, no matter whether it's 'literary' or erotica ... unless of course I can find a way to use the name Harry Potter in the title and get away with it!

Write because you love it, because you have no choice but to express yourself in that way. Otherwise, you likely won't make it.

[Mad Lews]

The point I want to make is that many good writers fall short of success not because of their writing but because they are unwilling or unable to handle the political requirements of self-promotion. I know I wasn't able to handle it ... now that I'm older, I may give it another shot, but this time I'll be aware that it's up to me to sell the dang thing, whether I use a vanity publisher or a mainstream commercial press, no matter whether it's 'literary' or erotica ... unless of course I can find a way to use the name Harry Potter in the title and get away with it!

Write because you love it, because you have no choice but to express yourself in that way. Otherwise, you likely won't make it.

Maybe some good writers turn to porn as a way to avoid the publicity schlepping.
I've never heard of Ann Rice doing a promotional tour for the Beauty series though she did have to for the Vamps. It might be that an agent could negotiate a contract to minimize the amount of appearances you have to make. Then again how do you get an agent without having published? Sounds like catch-22 but I hear tell if you have a contract offer you might want to have a literary agent look it over and see if they can improve upon it. Of course they do take a cut for their trouble but they are supposed to represent the writers best interests
Mad Lews

[Rabbit1]

Maybe some good writers turn to porn as a way to avoid the publicity schlepping.
I've never heard of Ann Rice doing a promotional tour for the Beauty series though she did have to for the Vamps. It might be that an agent could negotiate a contract to minimize the amount of appearances you have to make. Then again how do you get an agent without having published? Sounds like catch-22 but I hear tell if you have a contract offer you might want to have a literary agent look it over and see if they can improve upon it. Of course they do take a cut for their trouble but they are supposed to represent the writers best interests
Mad Lews

Oh I agree Mad---but most of the time by the time the litary agent is thru ---you would have been better off with the first offer---most are like personal injury lawyers your best intrests are their's only because their cut is bigger if you get more. There are a few good ones out there---but like law ---it also has become a dog eat dog world. So be careful of Litary Agents---

[her_Joe]

The "good ones" will put in a lot of work on your behalf. In return, they don't want to represent something that won't sell (and make them the $$ which is their reward), so many (don't know about all, y'know) will only represent a novelist, e.g., who has published one and has another nearly done and something to show toward a third cool idea .... what Mad called the Catch-22.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's best to be aware of what the realities are, imo.

HJ

[Mad Lews]

Rejoice,

After months of incarceration we are free to post here once more!!

Let us rejoice as we once again stumble forward on this rocky road and a tip on the hat to the new guidelines that have made this possible.

thanks

Mad &Lews

[Ruby]

Thank you, Slut4U.

I'm looking forward to hearing about you being published and having you tell your story in this thread.

---

Congrats and thanks to the forum members who been published and contributed to this thread.

I'm sure there's more of you hiding out there. Enquiring minds what to know what's worked for you and what didn't.

[Widget]

wow congrats indeed ... you must be very excited

[Mad Lews]

Wow and all! after the ehm..Mad Rush, I got my first Royalties check from
(bdsmbooks.com)
31 dollars and some change after assorted fees were withdrawn. Now if I could just find a bar that accepts Pay Pal I could invite you all out for a drink to celebrate.
Mad Lews

[Ruby]

Congratulations, Mad Lews! Excellent news.

[orchidsoul]

That's great, Mad! Congrats