Orgasm Denial... Why?

[Phenyx]

Ok, let's talk about orgasm denial. *sits and looks around VERY slowly knowing EXACTLY who likes those two words best*

I have one question... Why?

Oh, i know... it's magical, fun, thrilling, intensifies but seriously? There should honestly be a time limit on that denial. Just saying.

I have talked to others about this, both Dominant and submissives, and have been told many things but still I do not see the understanding of why deny such a wonderful thing for sooooo long? it just turns me into a very needy somewhat clingy mess then when that arises? I get remarks like I am 'Too needy' and so I respond? After three days? Well Ya! (just think what comes after 7 days)

I have been told that Dominants utilize orgasm denial to teach control but the thing is? What control are They actually teaching? To not want to be sexual? I get the intensifying part but not the other...

I know this seems like a silly question, and to a lot of you out there? Y/you are probably rolling your eyes right about now. But this is a serious concern that I actually have, even if it comes from a bit of a bratty place. Why deny someone that is a little higher then normal on the sexual side for so long? What are you trying to teach?
Please don't misunderstand, I honestly do enjoy giving up control of my orgasms and desire, but it is something that can lead to intense emotions when it is silently forgotten... I mean... just because you have that control and do not wish to acknowledge that need does not mean that it is going to just go away, at least it doesn't for me. I have heard from others that over time one just stops caring that they are not feeling desire but even after two weeks? I still feel it... matter of fact i feel like a freaking volcano about to erupt.

I also get that giving that control and sharing it with another is both a gift and reward. But... but... when denial is too long? that is what I do not understand... is it selfish to feel too much desire? If You understand how sexual I am from the beginning, then is it right to try to take that away? to change that part of me because at times it can become a burden to have to handle?

[Solis]

Good question.

Sexuality is a particularly fraught topic, so it might be easier to think about the underlying issue if we recast it in another realm.

Doms routinely control their subs' feeding behaviors. They set and monitor rules about what foods a sub is permitted, in what quantities, at what times, with what attendant rituals. For example, "you may eat nothing until you have texted me, requested a particular substance, and have received written approval. In the absence of a reply, you are permitted water at room temperature." More elaborately, "your breakfast tomorrow will be eight unfrosted pieces of mini-wheat cereal. you will arrange them in a circle on your plate with an inch between each piece. With your wrists crossed behind your back, you will lean forward and mouth one. One minute later you may consume the next. you will be silent and grateful throughout. If at any point you uncross your wrists, your meal has ended. Report to me as soon as it is done."

So, think about those rules and ask "what might these accomplish?" Off the top of my head:

1. in the case of a sub given to thoughtless, or stress, eating, it provides a useful discipline to help them achieve what might be an important life goal.

2. in the case of a new sub, it helps reinforce the habit of immediate, ongoing and conscious surrender to another's power.

3. in the case of a lonely sub, it creates a visible, visceral reminder of her connection to her Dom.

you might well imagine other good reasons. The common thread in valid reasons is that they are phrased as tools (or means) for achieving some higher goal that is sought by both sub and Dom. The rules do not have to be pleasant in order to be good tools; rather the opposite, the only really good rules are intrusive rules. If I told you to eat ooey, gooey, runny chocolate, you would ... but you'd have a mental "out," where you could say "i'm not doing this because He controls my life, i'm doing it because ... chocolate!!" If, instead, I told you to bite the tip off a jalapeno (uhhh, don't) and chew it, what story could you tell yourself ("i like 2d degree burns!") other than "i do as i am told"? A lot of the research on college hazing points in this same direction: students who survive hazing are fiercely loyal to the group that hazed them, but only when the hazing activities are otherwise unjustifiable.

Might a Dom control the time, place and manner of your sexual expression? Sure, but that control can only be justified in relation to achieving some mutually-shared goal. That means that you need to understand, accept and know when the goal has been achieved. The denial of sexual release in perpetuity, just as with the denial of nutrition in perpetuity, has no point other than satisfying the Dom's lust for more and more intense control. That impulse leans rather more toward a sadistic psychopathology than to the construct of a healthy, sustainable power exchange.

Solis

[Scot68]

Hey Phenyx. (Good to see you again)

How about this (and I'm just spitballing here..): It's not about "teaching"... it's about having an experience. That is, the sub having an experience and the top giving the sub that experience.

Seems to me that BDSM is about experiencing a wider range of emotions and sensations than so-called "normal" people experience.
And so if orgasm denial turns you into a needy clingy mess then maybe the point is to let you fully experience being a needy clingy mess.

Me? I think I'd like to be reduced to a drooling mass of sexual flesh, high on endorphins, and not about to think straight. I think I'd like that. And if I can get my partner so turned on, and fucked so thoroughly that she can't think straight, that seems good to me too.

Good to see you again

[Phenyx]

Thank You both for Your beautiful answers and advice *smiles*

SCOOOTTTY *rushes over and gives you a big hug* Good to see you again too my Friend *smiles*

*bows her head in respect to Solis*

I do love the idea of experiencing new things *smiles and nods* yes I do! And I think many of us here absolutely love being reduced to that 'drooling mass of sexual flesh, high on endorphins, and not about to think straight' state. *nods and nods* I know I do *wink*

I do have another question though, in regards to using orgasm denial as a teaching tool, if I may.

I understand what You are saying about being open with understanding the reasoning behind Your actions and intentions on what You are trying to teach and/or help with be it life goal, correcting bad behavior, teaching ways of submission, or easing the lonely spirit.

I am curious though, are there times in which You, as the Dominant, will take notice of something in the submissive that needs Your attention and may offer a learning tool, such as the eight unfrosted mini wheat for breakfast, without first explaining what Your intentions and/or reasoning is? Meaning... would You give these directions because You know as his/her Dominant that she/he needs Your help in easing/correcting/or straightening out some issue? Or would You as the Dominant, always explain why You are giving direction before You expect it to be carried out.

Could it be that this denial for longer periods of time has come from a place where it is easing the lonely spirit while adding the feel of reinforcing the habit of continuous surrender? Because denial for me is a daily battle so denying it every day would in fact draw my attention and focus to the One that has that control in turn would, through that battle to not break the rules, would in fact make me feel closer to the One.

[medusa]

Hi Phenyx

I think that there's a very fine line between learning experiences, teaching control etc, and doing it just because it's a power trip and because you want your sub to beg just a little bit harder or it's cool to control people. My first (not really a) Dom did it as a power trip for himself and for punishment for every little issue he thought I had caused, and for any other reason he could think of, because he wasn't actually looking after me at all.

I can't say whether this is your task for a laudable or positive reason or not. I only know that with hindsight, it really wasn't that way for me and my relationship was really not a positive and supportive one. He's history now, although subjugating some other poor woman, no doubt.

These days it's all far more cerebral and nothing to do with punitive treatment. We've got to the age where if you do it right you don't need to do it quite so often, so being denied for a few days is a rest, not a challenge.

[Solis]

Regrets for the long silence. Life keeps insists on becoming a distraction.

In general, I don't think "fostering insecurity" is a healthy training regimen and extended periods of unexplained impositions does foster insecurity. As a result, the girl might not know at 10:27:32 p.m. exactly why what's happening is happening, she will know before she closes her eyes to sleep. Might it be that, for some subs, insecurity and anxiety is healthy and productive? Uhhh ... I suppose if one wanted fervently enough to believe it was healthy, it could be? I teach about persuasion and compliance-gaining and there's one interesting adage in the literature: "believing is seeing."

Hope the autumn is proving joyful for all.

S.