Are kids growing up to fast?

[heycarrieanne]

There were rules in my home when I was growing up and you were given three strikes (gotta love a dad who loved baseball) and when you were out ... you got the belt. End of story! LOL What is so funny about it is that he hated my grandpa because of his strict discipline and there he was--giving it to us kids. As we were growing up, rules and responsibilities were given to each of us depending on our age. Thanks to my mom's upbringing in Girl Scouts (and no doubt the number of children she had), there was what she called a "caper chart" with each our names and our duties and they were marked off every night. I sure as hell learned to keep my portion of my room clean and neat, I did my chores, and I didn't fuck up a lot. It also made me more organized in college and probably why I went into business management. I have four brothers and three sisters and we are all organized!

[Warbaby1943]

Maybe we were just good children and didn't need the extra punishment? I don't think so.

I think you may have been better than you think. My kids were not bad children either. It was just my way of enforcing discipline and it too worked. In my opinion the laws in the states today are so fucked up parents are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They can get in trouble for using force to enforce discipline and on the other hand they can get in trouble if their kids don't obey the laws of the land.

My son once said jokingly that if he were growing up today he would have my ass in court for child abuse. I told him he would only have been able to it once. Neither one of us meant what we said. I believe it was just his way of saying thanks for the way he turned out. Today he is very successful with a beautiful family. And so too are my other kids. I followed my father's example of raising kids and I'm thankful I did.

[Silke]

I think you may have been better than you think. My kids were not bad children either. It was just my way of enforcing discipline and it too worked.

Yeah, seems like both of our family stories had a happy ending and I'm glad for that. Whether it's just the children who were strong enough or whether it was a 'good' way to raise children and give them good a solid foundation from? Well, I guess it's a question that only the children can answer later in life...and I'm willing to say that it might depend on the temperament and nature of the child, too. First of all because wilder children might simply be calling for more punishment or be too much for inexperienced parents.....and second, because it probably depends on psychological traits how the children will cope with corporal punishment.

I'm never going to become a fan of using physical force with children, but as long as it's coupled with love, talk and care (and doesn't go further than a spanking *shudders*), I'd never report parents for this - it's not abuse to me, yet. But believe me, I've seen children break through this and I've seen them become aggressive towards others or themselves...and I wouldn't want to risk this to be honest. It might work out well most of the time, but certainly not all the time.

Set firm rules, be consequential when they're broken, praise praise praise children when they're being their best and offer them all the love and care you have in your heart - to me that's all it takes, no physical force necessary. And I honestly think that a lot of parents who DO use corporal punishment (not talking about you guys in this thread!!) use it because they don't know a better way or can't cope at this point. And what an example does that set for children? If you don't know what else to say or do - just hit! I don't want more people like this in the world...

Again - this is a more general observation and not something I think y'all are guilty of. Just trying to show a different side that I've witnessed.

[Warbaby1943]

It might work out well most of the time, but certainly not all the time.

Wouldn't that be the same case with any method?

[Silke]

Wouldn't that be the same case with any method?

Yup, it would...but at least the risk of doing extra damage isn't there.

[Warbaby1943]

Yup, it would...but at least the risk of doing extra damage isn't there.

My way of thinking says that too much permissiveness and leniency in only talking runs the risk of other damages. A child raise this way could and often does believe he can do anything he wants and get away with it. That to my way of thinking is also damage.

[Silke]

My way of thinking says that too much permissiveness and leniency in only talking runs the risk of other damages. A child raise this way could and often does believe he can do anything he wants and get away with it. That to my way of thinking is also damage.

Yes, I agree if we're talking about too much permissiveness and leniency. That however was not my point. I'm all for setting boundaries and having the child face consequences when overstepping the line. I just disagree on the means to use for punishment or discipline. There's other ways than physical punishment, like taking away privileges for a certain amount of time, having the child apologize and find a way to make up for whatever happened...the possibilities are endless. And I've always found that punishment should be linked directly to the situation that went bad - I'm not sure that's possible with a spanking.

[Tojo]

I think it's important to remember that all parents just do their best with whatever information they have available.

Back when I was a kid it was seen as the 'done thing' to chastise- even in public. The generation before me was brought up probably more brutally.

A relatively short time ago an adult could give a kid he didn't know a 'kick in the pants' for unruly behaviour, while nowadays you'd go to jail for it.

After hearing some of the stories I've heard whilst counselling men, about abuse I'm very tempted to say all forms of physical punishment are wrong. That's just my opinion though, all kids & all parents are different.

Me, I've never had any & probably never will. I've made enough mistakes with my girls!

Now kiss & make up you two....

Tojo

[Silke]

*hugs Warbaby*...didn't realize we needed to make up, though, lol. We can agree to disagree any time.

[Warbaby1943]

Yes, I agree if we're talking about too much permissiveness and leniency. That however was not my point. I'm all for setting boundaries and having the child face consequences when overstepping the line. I just disagree on the means to use for punishment or discipline. There's other ways than physical punishment, like taking away privileges for a certain amount of time, having the child apologize and find a way to make up for whatever happened...the possibilities are endless. And I've always found that punishment should be linked directly to the situation that went bad - I'm not sure that's possible with a spanking.

We are never going to even find medium ground here because I disagree with most everything you say because of examples I have seen over the years. I'm just going to leave it at hopefully we can agree to disagree. Still love ya Silke.

How's that Tojo?

[poetic_justice]

...being walloped by the old man never helped me any.

Ditto, I'm afraid. My father spanked me while I was growing up (although they were few and far between, mostly I was a good kid), and even now if I'm a terror I get threatened with a slap. But despite all that, I generally do what I want regardless. My parents however, did raise me to be very responsible, and its one of the comments my friends parents make about me if I go to theirs or we go out partying "Is Tracey going? Make sure you stay with her, she's very responsible." LOL. I think being an only child played a big part in that, and there was always lots of adult company around, so in a way I was almost forced to grow up and act responsible to be part of the social circle.

Both my parents had very strict upbringings, and they didn't want to enforce that onto me. Knowing what it was like, as well as bringing me up in a different country/culture/age than they were brought up in. My parents did the best job they could, and I believe they did a great job of raising me. Scoldings and spankings were there if necessary, and one thing I will always be thankful for is that they never just said 'NO' to something, they always gave me a valid reason over a discussion.

The original argument here was that kids are growing up too fast, and in many ways, particuarly in regards to very young teenagers now, I have to agree. I'm only eighteen, but have never had the desire to dress skanky, or to wear little or no clothing. I still don't own a two piece swim suit. But thats just me. In fact, my mum was wearing jean cut offs and short skirts while I was growing up (and still - at nearly 50, owns a bikini), and I was the one wearing jeans and t-shirts. LOL. I suppose its just because I'm a tom-boy. Anyway, off topic.

Yes, younger children are wearing more revealing clothes, and yes, it is absolutely disgraceful. I saw an eight year old the other day wearing a mini-skirt and make-up. And I was disgusted. I don't even own a mini-skirt!!

Silke, I also agree with your point that there are other ways of punishing a child than just physically. My parents took away my allowance and other privelages if I was horrible. And that, I found, was very bloody effective.

I forget where I was going with this...anyway. Thanks for listening to me ramble.

[MajesticFae]

I'm about to bring this back as it's more true than ever that little girls are dressing skanky. I think it is due to how much emphasis the media places on how you look. With things now like Club Libby Lu and even stores they had back in my childhood like Limited Too, it's just encouraging little girls to dress like they're older than they really are.

It's okay to get dressed up in Mommy's heels and pearls and dresses once in a while, but why a mini and a halter top showing your stomach? That's like calling out to pedophiles and saying "Molest me! Molest me!"

Someone please tell me why a 9 year old needs a cell phone? This is a trend I'm seeing more and more with some of the kids I used to babysit. They all have phones now! I got my phone at 15, and even then it was just a prepaid. I got my first -real- cell phone when I got my car and could drive.

Why are parents dropping their 10-14 year old kids off at the movies on friday night and then coming back to pick them up later? Why are they dropping their 14 year olds off at the mall and coming back to get them later?

Kids are trying to grow up too quickly. I was raised in a very relaxed home. My parents instilled in me trust and responsibility. I was more afraid of losing their trust because I didn't get spanked very often. I could only sit in my room and read if I disobeyed them. No TV, no friends, no video games, no toys... just books. That's what happened when I was grounded. I think I was a really good kid, I didn't get into trouble and my mom didn't let me dress like a little skank. I dressed my age. I wnet through my ugly phase like most kids do around 6th grade and then I got cuter and started dressing cuter, but still nothing provocative.

I've been playing with make up since I was little, but I was never allowed to wear it out of the house. When I was 10 I could put on make up better than my mom. But It came off of my face before I walked out of the house. I played dress up and with barbies when I was little.

I plan on spanking my kids when I have them, but only as a last resort. If corner time or talking to them doesn't work, then spanking it is. I want to raise my kids like my parents did me. They both worked long days and still had plenty of time to spend with me. The one fault I give them is that they didn' police my internet activities enough once I figured out how to hide where I was going and stuff. But there weren't really sites like myspace and livejournal and xanga when I was 12.

Hell, I'm stil a good kid. I don't sleep around, get drunk at parties or do drugs. I get drunk with friends, smoke an occasional cigarette and I never drink and drive. My parents will buy me booze as long as I don't drink and drive. If I drink one smirnoff, I'm not allowed to drive for atleast an hour or two. Those don't even get me buzzed, but I completely understand their concern.

Bottom line, parents need to take an active role in their childrens lives and encourage them to be kids and not little adults.

[anonymouse]

I agree that the media and the marketing that goes on through it plays a major factor. About fifteen years ago I saw signs of the rot setting in. A major metropolitan Sunday newspaper ran an advertising feature on weddings in which the gowns were modeled by twelve year olds. These weren't twelve year olds who looked twenty either. They looked their ages! Why do this? Who are the advertisers supposed to be targeting? I'm sure modeling agencies have literally thousands of beautiful young women in their twenties on their books. Why weren't they used? I think it's perverse in the extreme to have twelve year olds modeling wedding gowns in these circumstances.

This wasn't an isolated incident either. That same newspaper has, over the years, frequently run fashion features in which young teens were used, often modeling provocative swimwear and other types of clothing that are, in my opinion, inappropriate for young girls. I stopped reading newspapers and watching television a few years ago, but I doubt anything has changed.

While we're on the subject, as I've gotten older I've felt more and more insulted by advertisers who think women my age are only interested in buying things that supposedly will remove domestic drudgery from my life. Advertisers seem to ignore their own demographic statistics that show the biggest group with the largest disposable income is in the age range of 35 to 50. I want to "buy sexy things" every bit as much as a woman in her twenties. STOP TRYING TO SELL ME SOAP POWDER!

hehe

~End: Grumpy old woman rant~

anonymouse

[nk_lion]

My parents never hit me. No offense to anyone from my comment, but just growing up the way I did, I find it hard to believe that some people need a reason to spank their kids. For me it was just a 'Look' and I'd stop whatever I did, hell, sometimes I wish I was spanked so the 'Look' would just go away.

But 20 years in my life, I'm close to graduation by skipping a grade in school, and fast tracking through university and hopefully (fingers crossed) going for my masters this year. I don't drink, smoke, steal (even download music from Ares or Limewire); I am far from the perfect person, and trust me, I've made my fair share of mistakes, but the way I was raised was to always value family a lot more then anything else. Using this ideal saved me through tough times through high school, never giving a second thought on stuff like getting wasted or high, or trying to imitate dressing styles to be accepted.

Someone also made a comment earlier about allowing teachers to be able to hit students. Going through a system that did allow this, I can only say that would be one of the worst things for your child. While I highly respect teachers, there are a few who will bring stress from their life and lash out on a student that happened to say or do something really stupid at the wrong time. It had happened to me and because of a bastard of a teacher, I have a scar close to my wrist. The parents should be responsible for the child's behaviour, not a teacher who has to deal with many other students.

Sorry, I've completely gone of tangent, but I just read the earlier posts about spanking, and wanted to add my $0.02 in.

I grew up in a highly materialistic city (Dubai for those who know) where showing of your wealth was the only way to prove your worth and status in society, and sadly these ideals were passed down to my generation. Kids would try to buy the latest and the greatest of everything, and try to imitate older people by doing "adult" stuff like smoking, drinking, swearing, etc. My family kept me grounded and I gained the maturity from it to be able to sort out who were people of value and people who just showed of their value; not to say I didn't have a temptation to be able to show off from time to time.

[wolfs_lilgirl]

hrmm... well.. i totally understand and respect everyones points of view.. but i think i do think different.. may be cuz i have a lil sister... i had never been spanked..or even grounded in my life and niethier has my lil.. sis.. i think.. im a good person , i have always been in gymnastics.. which was a hard discipline but never by my parents...

about.. kids growing up fast.. i dont think.. they are.. in my point of view i dont think.. a girl using clothes from limiteed too or somethign will make her.. grow up faster.. and the cell phones i understand parents... they want their children to have.. total acces to them.. in case of any problem.. or parents to contact their.. kids.. so i dont think thats a problem ethier.. about make up... well.. i started to use make up.. very young .. my mom has always wanted us .. to be.. like perfect in everyway.. she waxed my legs.. when i was.. 11.. so i guess im used to all that things.. but i dont think that made me grow up faster.. i think is just a way of thinking....

[OttifantSir]

Are kids growing up too fast? Emotional and logical maturity hasn't been fast-tracked in the later years, only the public image of how children today should behave (or not) have changed. Not the pace of how fast a child matures.
Children have always looked up to popular people for role-models. The thing about today's world, is that the role-models may be from a strict home with good upbringing but they have chosen a path in life that doesn't fit young people. If I remember correctly, Christina Aguilera wasn't a bad role-model once. I believe she was first cast in Disney's Breakfast Club. (Correct me if I'm wrong here. I know one of the girl-idols was with Disney) In terms of personality, she may still be a good role-model. What do I know? But her public appearance is what her fans see and mimic. And since children understand that the music business isn't for them at this point in their lives, they copy her appearance. And with all the hype on Paris and Nicole, The Olsen Twins, Gwen Stefani, etc. it's no wonder little girls want to copy their appearance. They understand that these people are loved and popular, and they want to be loved and popular. Sadly, being yourself doesn't often make you loved and popular because some bad seeds put them down with derogatory comments if they don't act like "the flock of geese".

There are several bad role-models for young boys too, but that doesn't show as much, since this day and age is geared so much towards sexuality. We see the little girls because they dress "skanky" or whatever.

I have no problem with children finding their own style and being themselves, but at ages below 14, I don't think it is appropriate to dress them up, or let them dress up, like the 20-something idols. 14 is an age, for me, when they can be allowed a little more leeway in how they dress, but I would still put some restrictions on them.

As for the spanking part of this discussion. I love my parents. They were never too strict, in fact, I think they could have been stricter. Certainly when it comes to my sister and brother. I have been spanked (or tried spanked) only once. My mother and father had a branch of birch lying atop a door-post. Once I proved myself to be so obnoxious that it came down on me... And snapped in four pieces. It was too dry. So I have gotten one hit by a cane in all my life. When I got older, I was somewhere in my teens, I got a slap in the face by my mother. I don't remember the discussion, but I think I called my mother something you should never call your mother. She then gave me an open-handed slap. I didn't feel it then, as the discussion was so heated, but I felt it later when I had retreated to my room.

I can't say for sure what I will be doing to my kids when I eventually( ? ) get them, but I can say that a spanking most likely will be a last resort to make them understand. Taking away privileges will always be the first, after trying to make them understand why and how they have done something wrong. But should this prove to be leading nowhere, I think a talk, a spanking, and more talking will let them know that this is serious. Something are so serious that you need to feel some physical effects of them as well as a rant from one of the parents about why and how it's wrong.

I guess I just talked myself into the fact that I will spank my kids once in a great while.

I wish my parents had given me more structure when I was growing up. They weren't bad parents, neither abusive or any other bad thing. They just weren't GREAT parents. They gave me respect and advice and love, but they lacked the fourth leg upon which a parent is judged: Structure.

Well, my soap box is starting to get very heavy, so I'll end it here.

Conclusion: Kids don't grow up/mature faster than before. Their role-models have changed, and their values are different than what we want them to be.